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Date: 25 Apr 2005 16:48:35
From: Lee Harris
Subject: Can you identify computer play?
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If I play online with someone, and suspect they are using some program in the background, is there a way that you can tell or at least strongly suggest they are doing so?
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Date: 01 May 2005 15:26:11
From: Error Flink
Subject: Re: Can you identify computer play?
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Ron is absolutely correct. I don't know why people repeat that way too simple "Fritz agreements" idea all the time. Didn't they ever study a random master game from the old days, where computers didn't even exist yet...? I mean, it should be obvious that, for example, Chigorin wasn't a computer cheater :-) Still, you'll find many of his middle- and endgame moves among Fritz' 3 multi-pv variants. The better his moves are, the more often Fritz will agree. Today's chess programs are strong, because they can make the same moves like strong humans do. Which means, strong humans will often make moves which good progs will play es well. It's not so simple. You have to search for deep, difficult tactics played within short time, and even then you need to find more than one or two examples before it creates a reasonable suspicion. Also, it may be that the cheater doesn't use Fritz but another engine, and/or custom settings resulting in disagreements with a default Fritz.
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Date: 01 May 2005 22:56:01
From: bruno
Subject: Re: Can you identify computer play?
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Save the game and then run it trough fritz and compare it with the moves you see in fritz analysis. If most of the moves are in one of the top 3 lines of fritz you can be pretty sure he used a computer. Also if he uses a few seconds for dead obvious moves and takes about the same amount of time for each move you should be suspicious. "Lee Harris" <[email protected] > schreef in bericht news:[email protected]... > If I play online with someone, and suspect they are using some program in > the background, is there a way that you can tell or at least strongly > suggest they are doing so? >
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Date: 01 May 2005 21:36:36
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Can you identify computer play?
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In article <[email protected] >, "bruno" <[email protected] > wrote: > Save the game and then run it trough fritz and compare it with the moves you > see in fritz analysis. > If most of the moves are in one of the top 3 lines of fritz you can be > pretty sure he used a computer. This is absolute bullshit. In most games between reasonably strong players, most moves will be one of Fritz's top three choices. Not all of their moves, of course, but a hell of a lot will be. That being said, one sign that someone ISN'T a computer is that they three-and-four move tactics (whether or not you saw them) - so analyzing with fritz can be useful. Similarly, computers don't make speculative sacrifices, so either of the above can be used to rule out computer play. Computers show themselves the most in endgames and in closed positions, particularly when they don't have a lot of time.
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Date: 02 May 2005 01:40:28
From: bruno
Subject: Re: Can you identify computer play?
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> This is absolute bullshit. > > In most games between reasonably strong players, most moves will be one > of Fritz's top three choices. Not all of their moves, of course, but a > hell of a lot will be. I'm a helper at worldchessnetwork.com and I know that's the way they check computer users. And I know strong players will play a lot of the same moves, but if in a blitz game somebody plays consistently all fritz moves even in positions with many possible alternatives then he is most likely using a computer.
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Date: 25 Apr 2005 19:53:30
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Can you identify computer play?
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In article <[email protected] >, "Lee Harris" <[email protected] > wrote: > If I play online with someone, and suspect they are using some program in > the background, is there a way that you can tell or at least strongly > suggest they are doing so? Occasionally -- but, it's really hard. As someone who's been accused of using a computer online (because I have horrid bughouse rating, a good standard rating, and I like increments), I want to encourage you to be very, very careful throwing accusations around. There are some situations where it's obvious -- particularly in closed positions, where a computer will just make a completely nonsensical move, especially when short on time. There are other situations where it's obvious in the other direction: unsound sacrifices, etc. But most of the time it's very hard to tell. Furthermore, most of the accusations I've seen have been based on a player who hangs material one game executing a pretty combination in another, or a player playing a series of very weak games followed by a series of very strong one. But in my experience, both of those things happen fairly regularly to a lot of class players, particularly in short, online games. If you want to post the game, I'm sure some folks here will be happy to take a look at it, and if there's anything obvious they'll say so. -Ron
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Date: 25 Apr 2005 20:28:53
From: Antonio Torrecillas
Subject: Re: Can you identify computer play?
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En/na Lee Harris ha escrit: > If I play online with someone, and suspect they are using some program in > the background, is there a way that you can tell or at least strongly > suggest they are doing so? You can post here the MAX information about that player and the games and sure anyone here has something to say. In my opinion the best test is the opinion of an strong player who knows well how different is computer play to human play. AT
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