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Date: 11 Apr 2006 16:13:53
From: Antonio Torrecillas
Subject: A nice game, ... anyone interested in analyze it?
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[Event "Catalunya equips 1a div"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2006.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Garcia Gil, X."]
[Black "Iraeta, Jose"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "D07"]
[PlyCount "50"]
[EventDate "2006.??.??"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. e3 e5 4. cxd5 Qxd5 5. Nc3 Bb4 6. Bd2 Bxc3
7. Bxc3 exd4 8.Ne2 Nf6 9. Nxd4 O-O 10. Nb5 Qg5 11. Nxc7 Bg4
12. Qb3 Rad8 13.Qxb7 Rd6 14. Nb5 Re6 15. Bd2 Rb8 16. Qc7 Rxb5
17. Bxb5 Qxb5 18. f3 Qd3 19.O-O-O Bf5 20. e4 Rxe4 21. Bc3 Re1
22. Qc8+ Bxc8 23. Rhxe1 Qc4 24. Kb1 Bf5+ 25. Ka1 Be6 0-1
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Date: 13 Apr 2006 03:36:28
From: Holbox
Subject: Re: A nice game, ... anyone interested in analyze it?
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Thx
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Date: 13 Apr 2006 00:44:17
From: Holbox
Subject: Re: A nice game, ... anyone interested in analyze it?
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Hola Antonio,
how can i get the games from the Catalonia Teams Championship?
Thx
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Date: 13 Apr 2006 10:51:05
From: Antonio Torrecillas
Subject: Re: A nice game, ... anyone interested in analyze it?
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En/na Holbox ha escrit:
> Hola Antonio,
>
> how can i get the games from the Catalonia Teams Championship?
>
> Thx
This game was the only one I have seen posted.
It appeared after a cronicle of a match in
http://www.ajedreznd.com/
in concrete in 9th round of
http://www.ajedreznd.com/2006/dardo.html
But I hope we can see many games soon in
http://www.fcde.org/
... in concrete in:
http://www.fcde.org/partides/base.htm
AT
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Date: 12 Apr 2006 10:12:40
From: James
Subject: Re: A nice game, ... anyone interested in analyze it?
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Not much to analyze. It's pretty standard play until move 13 (line
played at least twice by strong players or computer programs).
14. Nb5 is bad (correct is h3)An interesting (sharp) continuation could
be 14... Re6 15 Nd4 Rxe3 16. fxe3 Qxe3+ 17. Ne2 Ne4 18. Qxc6 Rd8 19.
Qxe4 Qxe4 20. h3 Bxe2 21. Bxe2 Re8 22. 0-0-0 Qxe2 23. Re1 Qb5 24 Rxe8+
Qxe8 and black are better
15. Bd2 (instead of Nd4) loses faster however as the b5 pawn goes
immediately; trying to take the rook 17. Bxb5 probably makes things
worst. Slightly better is 17. Bc4 Nd5 18. Qc8+ Nd8 19. Qd7 Rc5 20. h4
Qf6 21. Bxd5 Rxe3+ Bxe3 22. Bxd7 Bxc5 23. Bxc5 Qe5+ 24. Be3 Qxd5. Black
are better anyway.
18. ...Qd3 is probably not very good. Better is Ne8 to send the white
queen away from c7
19. 0-0-0 loses immediately (19. Rc1 is probably the best continuation
to control the c file and keep a very small hope)
James
Antonio Torrecillas wrote :
> [Event "Catalunya equips 1a div"]
> [Site "?"]
> [Date "2006.??.??"]
> [Round "?"]
> [White "Garcia Gil, X."]
> [Black "Iraeta, Jose"]
> [Result "0-1"]
> [ECO "D07"]
> [PlyCount "50"]
> [EventDate "2006.??.??"]
>
> 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. e3 e5 4. cxd5 Qxd5 5. Nc3 Bb4 6. Bd2 Bxc3
> 7. Bxc3 exd4 8.Ne2 Nf6 9. Nxd4 O-O 10. Nb5 Qg5 11. Nxc7 Bg4
> 12. Qb3 Rad8 13.Qxb7 Rd6 14. Nb5 Re6 15. Bd2 Rb8 16. Qc7 Rxb5
> 17. Bxb5 Qxb5 18. f3 Qd3 19.O-O-O Bf5 20. e4 Rxe4 21. Bc3 Re1
> 22. Qc8+ Bxc8 23. Rhxe1 Qc4 24. Kb1 Bf5+ 25. Ka1 Be6 0-1
>
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Date: 12 Apr 2006 11:13:57
From: Antonio Torrecillas
Subject: Re: A nice game, ... anyone interested in analyze it?
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Hello James,
En/na James ha escrit:
> Not much to analyze. It's pretty standard play until move 13 (line
> played at least twice by strong players or computer programs).
Those players are about 2200-2300, I think this game is specially well
played by black (better than his theoretical strengh). White was a
little inconscient (unaware?) in this game
> 14. Nb5 is bad (correct is h3)An interesting (sharp) continuation could
> be 14... Re6 15 Nd4 Rxe3 16. fxe3 Qxe3+ 17. Ne2 Ne4 18. Qxc6 Rd8 19.
> Qxe4 Qxe4 20. h3 Bxe2 21. Bxe2 Re8 22. 0-0-0 Qxe2 23. Re1 Qb5 24 Rxe8+
> Qxe8 and black are better
>
> 15. Bd2 (instead of Nd4) loses faster however as the b5 pawn goes
> immediately; trying to take the rook 17. Bxb5 probably makes things
> worst. Slightly better is 17. Bc4 Nd5 18. Qc8+ Nd8 19. Qd7 Rc5 20. h4
> Qf6 21. Bxd5 Rxe3+ Bxe3 22. Bxd7 Bxc5 23. Bxc5 Qe5+ 24. Be3 Qxd5. Black
> are better anyway.
If I understand well you think black was better after 14th move
(proposing 14.h4 as improvement but with no line nor evaluation) and you
think 15.Bd2 loses the game.
> 18. ...Qd3 is probably not very good. Better is Ne8 to send the white
> queen away from c7
> 19. 0-0-0 loses immediately (19. Rc1 is probably the best continuation
> to control the c file and keep a very small hope)
19.Rc1 also seems to lose inmediately after 19...Nd4.
It seems black is winning with both 18...Qd3 and 18...Ne8
> James
Thanks,
Antonio
> Antonio Torrecillas wrote :
>
>> [Event "Catalunya equips 1a div"]
>> [Site "?"]
>> [Date "2006.??.??"]
>> [Round "?"]
>> [White "Garcia Gil, X."]
>> [Black "Iraeta, Jose"]
>> [Result "0-1"]
>> [ECO "D07"]
>> [PlyCount "50"]
>> [EventDate "2006.??.??"]
>>
>> 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. e3 e5 4. cxd5 Qxd5 5. Nc3 Bb4 6. Bd2 Bxc3
>> 7. Bxc3 exd4 8.Ne2 Nf6 9. Nxd4 O-O 10. Nb5 Qg5 11. Nxc7 Bg4
>> 12. Qb3 Rad8 13.Qxb7 Rd6 14. Nb5 Re6 15. Bd2 Rb8 16. Qc7 Rxb5
>> 17. Bxb5 Qxb5 18. f3 Qd3 19.O-O-O Bf5 20. e4 Rxe4 21. Bc3 Re1
>> 22. Qc8+ Bxc8 23. Rhxe1 Qc4 24. Kb1 Bf5+ 25. Ka1 Be6 0-1
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Date: 12 Apr 2006 14:38:05
From: James
Subject: Re: A nice game, ... anyone interested in analyze it?
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Antonio Torrecillas wrote :
> Hello James,
>
> En/na James ha escrit:
>
>> Not much to analyze. It's pretty standard play until move 13 (line
>> played at least twice by strong players or computer programs).
>
> Those players are about 2200-2300, I think this game is specially well
> played by black (better than his theoretical strengh). White was a
> little inconscient (unaware?) in this game
>
>> 14. Nb5 is bad (correct is h3)An interesting (sharp) continuation
>> could be 14... Re6 15 Nd4 Rxe3 16. fxe3 Qxe3+ 17. Ne2 Ne4 18. Qxc6 Rd8
>> 19. Qxe4 Qxe4 20. h3 Bxe2 21. Bxe2 Re8 22. 0-0-0 Qxe2 23. Re1 Qb5 24
>> Rxe8+ Qxe8 and black are better
>>
>> 15. Bd2 (instead of Nd4) loses faster however as the b5 pawn goes
>> immediately; trying to take the rook 17. Bxb5 probably makes things
>> worst. Slightly better is 17. Bc4 Nd5 18. Qc8+ Nd8 19. Qd7 Rc5 20. h4
>> Qf6 21. Bxd5 Rxe3+ Bxe3 22. Bxd7 Bxc5 23. Bxc5 Qe5+ 24. Be3 Qxd5.
>> Black are better anyway.
>
> If I understand well you think black was better after 14th move
> (proposing 14.h4 as improvement but with no line nor evaluation) and you
> think 15.Bd2 loses the game.
>
14. h3 is the best move according to me (pushes the bishop away), but
Qb5 is also a possibility (and h4 is possible, but less good). Nb5 is a
tactical mistake, not that easy to spot and 17. Bxb5 is another tactical
shortcoming, as analyzed.
The line after 14. h3 is 14...Rb8 15. Qa6 and black has to take the
bishop away 15... Bd7 16. Qc4 and the position is almost equal, with
black being two pawns down but with a lot of activity (16...Ne5 17.Qf4
Qxf4 18. exf4 Ng6 19. f3 Rc8 20. f5 Nh4 21. Be5 Rc6 22. Nb5 Re8 23. f4
Ne4 24. Nd4 Rb6 25. Nf3 Nxf5 26. g4 Ne3 for example, and equality).
>> 18. ...Qd3 is probably not very good. Better is Ne8 to send the white
>> queen away from c7
>
>> 19. 0-0-0 loses immediately (19. Rc1 is probably the best continuation
>> to control the c file and keep a very small hope)
>
> 19.Rc1 also seems to lose inmediately after 19...Nd4.
Yes, but the position can hold a little longer with 20. Qc8+ Ne8 21. Qc4
Rxe3+ 22. Bxe3 Qxe3+ 23. Kd1 Nxf3 24. gxf3 Bxf3+ 25. Kc2 Be4+ 26. Kd1
Bxh1 27. Rc3 Qg1+ 28. Kc2 Qxh2+ 29. Kb3 lost game for white, but not as
fast.
> It seems black is winning with both 18...Qd3 and 18...Ne8
>
Yes. Too many mistakes. Vulnerant omnes, ultima necat.
>> James
>
> Thanks,
> Antonio
>
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Date: 14 Apr 2006 21:58:52
From: Antonio Torrecillas
Subject: Re: A nice game, ... anyone interested in analyze it?
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En/na James ha escrit:
> Antonio Torrecillas wrote :
>> If I understand well you think black was better after 14th move
>> (proposing 14.h4 as improvement but with no line nor evaluation) and
>> you think 15.Bd2 loses the game.
Sorry, I wanted to write 14.h3.
> 14. h3 is the best move according to me (pushes the bishop away), but
> Qb5 is also a possibility (and h4 is possible, but less good). Nb5 is a
> tactical mistake, not that easy to spot and 17. Bxb5 is another tactical
> shortcoming, as analyzed.
> The line after 14. h3 is 14...Rb8 15. Qa6 and black has to take the
> bishop away 15... Bd7 16. Qc4 and the position is almost equal, with
> black being two pawns down but with a lot of activity (16...Ne5 17.Qf4
> Qxf4 18. exf4 Ng6 19. f3 Rc8 20. f5 Nh4 21. Be5 Rc6 22. Nb5 Re8 23. f4
> Ne4 24. Nd4 Rb6 25. Nf3 Nxf5 26. g4 Ne3 for example, and equality).
>
>> 19.Rc1 also seems to lose inmediately after 19...Nd4.
>
> Yes, but the position can hold a little longer with 20. Qc8+ Ne8 21. Qc4
> Rxe3+ 22. Bxe3 Qxe3+ 23. Kd1 Nxf3 24. gxf3 Bxf3+ 25. Kc2 Be4+ 26. Kd1
> Bxh1 27. Rc3 Qg1+ 28. Kc2 Qxh2+ 29. Kb3 lost game for white, but not as
> fast.
>
>> It seems black is winning with both 18...Qd3 and 18...Ne8
> Yes. Too many mistakes. Vulnerant omnes, ultima necat.
I repost here the game and I add my notes at the end:
[Event "Catalunya equips 1a div"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2006.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Garcia Gil, X."]
[Black "Iraeta, Jose"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "D07"]
[PlyCount "50"]
[EventDate "2006.??.??"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. e3 e5 4. cxd5 Qxd5 5. Nc3 Bb4 6. Bd2 Bxc3
7. Bxc3 exd4 8.Ne2 Nf6 9. Nxd4 O-O 10. Nb5 Qg5 11. Nxc7 Bg4
12. Qb3 Rad8 13.Qxb7 Rd6 14. Nb5 Re6 15. Bd2 Rb8 16. Qc7 Rxb5
17. Bxb5 Qxb5 18. f3 Qd3 19.O-O-O Bf5 20. e4 Rxe4 21. Bc3 Re1
22. Qc8+ Bxc8 23. Rhxe1 Qc4 24. Kb1 Bf5+ 25. Ka1 Be6 0-1
It seems this line was played by Miladinovic (a 2500 player) many times
in last years:
- in first 1997 game versus Van Wely (draw) where black played 13...Qc5
(that was considered bad being proposed 13...Rd6 as improvement)
- in second 1999 game versus Flear where white tried to improve with
13.h3?! but with bad results.
- After those two games it seems strong players prefer 11.h4.
Miladinovic, Morozevic, Vallejo with black pieces have seen this 11.h4
after 2000 year.
Returning to the game:
- your improvement 14.h3!? seems unclear enough to concede black
interersting play in that moment of the game, .... and more when you
think position is balanced (I admit all long lines are false as Larsen
wrote)). In my database there is a single game with this move played by
unkonwn players.
- Your last sentence "Too many mistakes. Vulnerant omnes, ultima necat."
disoriented me.
Van Wely entered in that line not long ago (in 1997) and He is a great
player. I suppose that if black (Miladinovic) would have played the
correct 13...Rd6 Loek would have put all his resistence and created many
problems to black but the question is that He played the firts 13 moves
of that game.
Garcia later moves does seem not illogical (the true blunder 14.Nb5
moves a knight from a dangereous position and attacks a rook). In my
opinion He enter in a bad line, then He make a blunder with his 14th
move (difficult to see for most part of us) and then there is no escape
(at least no one have proposed here mves for white which do not lose).
I would have written "white was caught in the opening and black play was
strong enough to not to allow any chance for white".
It seems black played very well and the only "question" posted here was
if He could have won with another moves. I think it was a nice game!
AT
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Date: 14 Apr 2006 22:21:22
From: Antonio Torrecillas
Subject: Re: A nice game, ... anyone interested in analyze it?
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En/na Antonio Torrecillas ha escrit:
> I repost here the game and I add my notes at the end:
>
> [Event "Catalunya equips 1a div"]
> [Site "?"]
> [Date "2006.??.??"]
> [Round "?"]
> [White "Garcia Gil, X."]
> [Black "Iraeta, Jose"]
> [Result "0-1"]
> [ECO "D07"]
> [PlyCount "50"]
> [EventDate "2006.??.??"]
>
> 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. e3 e5 4. cxd5 Qxd5 5. Nc3 Bb4 6. Bd2 Bxc3
> 7. Bxc3 exd4 8.Ne2 Nf6 9. Nxd4 O-O 10. Nb5 Qg5 11. Nxc7 Bg4
> 12. Qb3 Rad8 13.Qxb7 Rd6 14. Nb5 Re6 15. Bd2 Rb8 16. Qc7 Rxb5
> 17. Bxb5 Qxb5 18. f3 Qd3 19.O-O-O Bf5 20. e4 Rxe4 21. Bc3 Re1
> 22. Qc8+ Bxc8 23. Rhxe1 Qc4 24. Kb1 Bf5+ 25. Ka1 Be6 0-1
> (...)
> - Your last sentence "Too many mistakes. Vulnerant omnes, ultima necat."
> disoriented me.
>
> Van Wely entered in that line not long ago (in 1997) and He is a great
> player. I suppose that if black (Miladinovic) would have played the
> correct 13...Rd6 Loek would have put all his resistence and created many
> problems to black but the question is that He played the firts 13 moves
> of that game.
>
> Garcia later moves does seem not illogical (the true blunder 14.Nb5
> moves a knight from a dangereous position and attacks a rook). In my
> opinion He enter in a bad line, then He make a blunder with his 14th
> move (difficult to see for most part of us) and then there is no escape
> (at least no one have proposed here mves for white which do not lose).
A correction:
Garcia made a mistake in his 14th move (14.Nb5) and does not find the
best move in his 15th move (He played 15.Bd2 and not 15.Nd4 which lead
to clear advantage for black)
> I would have written "white was caught in the opening and black play was
> strong enough to not to allow any chance for white".
>
> It seems black played very well and the only "question" posted here was
> if He could have won with another moves. I think it was a nice game!
An Add
I was impressed specially for 20....Rxe4!!, ... the first move who comes
to my mind is 20.Nxe4 but it is a mistake (not so easy to see), ... then
I would consider 20...Nd4 (who gives near won position but is weaker
than the actual move played).
And the entire game has some global attractive, it seems one of those
games we can see in a book where a master beat an amateur.
> AT
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Date: 11 Apr 2006 16:54:33
From: Ken Lovering
Subject: Re: A nice game, ... anyone interested in analyze it?
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"Antonio Torrecillas" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [Event "Catalunya equips 1a div"]
> [Site "?"]
> [Date "2006.??.??"]
> [Round "?"]
> [White "Garcia Gil, X."]
> [Black "Iraeta, Jose"]
> [Result "0-1"]
> [ECO "D07"]
> [PlyCount "50"]
> [EventDate "2006.??.??"]
>
> 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. e3 e5 4. cxd5 Qxd5 5. Nc3 Bb4 6. Bd2 Bxc3
> 7. Bxc3 exd4 8.Ne2 Nf6
It's ashame Black gave up his bishop for nothing.........however, I'm known
to do that :)
To bad Black didn't play 8....Bg4, could have gotten real sharp.
>9. Nxd4 O-O 10. Nb5 Qg5 11. Nxc7 Bg4
> 12. Qb3 Rad8 13.Qxb7 Rd6 14. Nb5 Re6 15. Bd2 Rb8
White has a won game.
> 16. Qc7
Fritz sez 16.Qxb8 Nxd8 17. Nxd6 is a won game for White, although he'll have
to work for it. Now Black has a won game.
>16.... Rxb5
> 17. Bxb5 Qxb5 18. f3 Qd3 19.O-O-O Bf5 20. e4 Rxe4 21. Bc3 Re1
> 22. Qc8+ Bxc8 23. Rhxe1 Qc4 24. Kb1 Bf5+ 25. Ka1 Be6 0-1
>
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Date: 12 Apr 2006 11:02:15
From: Antonio Torrecillas
Subject: Re: A nice game, ... anyone interested in analyze it?
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En/na Ken Lovering ha escrit:
> "Antonio Torrecillas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>[Event "Catalunya equips 1a div"]
>>[Site "?"]
>>[Date "2006.??.??"]
>>[Round "?"]
>>[White "Garcia Gil, X."]
>>[Black "Iraeta, Jose"]
>>[Result "0-1"]
>>[ECO "D07"]
>>[PlyCount "50"]
>>[EventDate "2006.??.??"]
>>
>>1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. e3 e5 4. cxd5 Qxd5 5. Nc3 Bb4 6. Bd2 Bxc3
>>7. Bxc3 exd4 8.Ne2 Nf6
>>9. Nxd4 O-O 10. Nb5 Qg5 11. Nxc7 Bg4
>>12. Qb3 Rad8 13.Qxb7 Rd6 14. Nb5 Re6 15. Bd2 Rb8
>
> White has a won game.
>
>>16. Qc7
>
> Fritz sez 16.Qxb8 Nxd8 17. Nxd6 is a won game for White, although he'll have
> to work for it. Now Black has a won game.
>
>>16.... Rxb5
>>17. Bxb5 Qxb5 18. f3 Qd3 19.O-O-O Bf5 20. e4 Rxe4 21. Bc3 Re1
>>22. Qc8+ Bxc8 23. Rhxe1 Qc4 24. Kb1 Bf5+ 25. Ka1 Be6 0-1
Hello Ken,
I suppose you have the wrong score in your Fritz because after 16.Qxb8
Nxd6 17.Nd6 does not take any piece and loses more material after Re6xd6.
If I'm correct you need to re-evaluate the position after 15....Rb8 as
won for black.
Antonio
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