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Main
Date: 17 Jul 2006 01:49:01
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod)
Subject: 1.g4?! h5!
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Well?
====
Wlod
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Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod) wrote:
> I wonder if 1... h5 is the refutation of 1.g4, as white
> has nothing to be excited about.
In theory, yes. After 1. g4 h5 2. g5 e5 Rybka (elo ~2900) consistently
crushes the Grob whether White replies d4, Nc3, d3, or h4.
Rybka vs Rybka
1. g4 h5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 d5 5. Nxd4 c5 6. Nb3 Nc6 7. Bg2 Be6
8. O-O Qc7 9. Nc3 O-O-O 10. e3 Bd6 11. Kh1 Nge7 12. Nb5 Qd7 13. c4 Ne5
14. cxd5 Nxd5 15. Nxd6 Qxd6 16. e4 Ng4 17. f4 Nge3 18. Bxe3 Nxe3 19.
Qxd6 Rxd6 20. e5 Rdd8 21. Rf2 b6 22. Bf3 Rd3 23. Be4 Rd1 24. Rxd1 Nxd1
25. Re2 Bg4 26. Rd2 Rd8 27. Kg2 Rxd2 28. Nxd2 Nxb2 29. g6 fxg6 30. Bxg6
Kd7 31. Kg3 c4 32. h3 Bd1 33. Ne4 Bc2 34. Nc5 bxc5 35. Bxc2 Nd3 36. Ba4
Ke6 37. Kf3 c3 38. Ke4 Ne1 39. f5 Ke7 40. Ke3 c2 41. Kd2 Nf3
42. Kxc2 Nxe5 43. Kd2 Kf6 44. Bc2 Nc4 45. Kc3 Nd6 46. a3 Nxf5 47. Be4
0-1
In practice, it's far from busted. An older Chessbase database shows 4
wins, 1 draw, and 2 losses for White. That's not too shabby.
> Regards,
>
> Wlod
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Date: 08 Aug 2006 15:54:55
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: 1.g4?! h5!
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> Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod) wrote:
>> I wonder if 1... h5 is the refutation of 1.g4, as white
>> has nothing to be excited about.
>
> In theory, yes. After 1. g4 h5 2. g5 e5 Rybka (elo ~2900) consistently
> crushes the Grob whether White replies d4, Nc3, d3, or h4.
>
> Rybka vs Rybka
>
> 1. g4 h5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 d5 5. Nxd4 c5 6. Nb3 Nc6 7. Bg2 Be6
> 8. O-O Qc7 9. Nc3 O-O-O 10. e3 Bd6
10...d4 and why is White not dead as a doornail? (been up a while so don't
flame too hard).
--
"Google maintains the USENET." -- The Honorable R. Barclay Surrick, Eastern
District of PA Judge
From Parker v. Google, E.D.Pa. #04-cv-3918
"appointment of counsel was unwarranted given Parker's abilities as a writer
and presenter of arguments"
From Page 6 of the ruling in Parker v. University of Pennsylvania, #04-3688,
Third Circuit Court Of Appeals.
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Date: 20 Jul 2006 02:27:32
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod)
Subject: Re: 1.g4?! -- general info
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[email protected] wrote:
> Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod) wrote:
> > Of all opening moves 1.***, represented by
> > at least 100 games, move 1.g4 has the
> > best (for white) stats:
> >
> > +61.7% =10.8% -27.5%
> >
> > I imagine that ALL these 187 games were
> > played by very strong players.
This is the stat from chessgames.com
> If you look closely, you'll note the statistics
> are skewed by Bloodgood's prison massacres
> against lesser players.
Oh, I see. Thank you.
> In the past 10 years, the Grob's scored
>
> 44% wins, 17% draws, and 39% losses.
What is your source?
> C.Bloodgood-W.Waymire, Prison 1960:
>
> 1.g4 d5 2.Bg2 Bxg4 3.c4 e6 4.cxd5 exd5
> 5.Qb3 Qc8 6.Bxd5 Nc6 7.Bxf7+ Ke7
> 8.Bxg8 Rxg8 9.Qxg8 Nd4 10.Qc4 1-0
Indeed, if say 10... c5 then 11.Na3
and black has no counter-chances.
A dreadful performance by black.
Patzer like.
> 5...Qc8?? and 6...Nc6?? are just terrible.
2... Bxg4 seems to be already weak.
Either 2... c5 or 2... e5 should be better.
Thank you again, regards,
Wlod
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Date: 19 Jul 2006 20:10:36
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 1.g4?! -- general info
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Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod) wrote:
> Of all opening moves 1.***, represented by
> at least 100 games, move 1.g4 has the
> best (for white) stats:
>
> +61.7% =10.8% -27.5%
>
> I imagine that ALL these 187 games were
> played by very strong players.
If you look closely, you'll note the statistics are skewed by
Bloodgood's prison massacres against lesser players. In the past 10
years, the Grob's scored 44% wins, 17% draws, and 39% losses.
C.Bloodgood-W.Waymire, Prison 1960:
1.g4 d5 2.Bg2 Bxg4 3.c4 e6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Qb3 Qc8 6.Bxd5 Nc6 7.Bxf7+ Ke7
8.Bxg8 Rxg8 9.Qxg8 Nd4 10.Qc4 1-0
5...Qc8?? and 6...Nc6?? are just terrible.
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Date: 19 Jul 2006 19:28:43
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod)
Subject: Re: 1.g4?! h5!
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[email protected] wrote:
> I found a sample game: S.Sloan-J.Whitney, World Open 1999.
Thank you! Chessgames don't have 1.g4 h5 at all.
Neither the opening monographies at my disposal.
> After
> 1. g4 h5 2. g5 e5 3. d3 d5 4. Nc3
So far so good.
> 4... c6 5. e4 d4
>
> chances are equal.
4... c6 looks timid. Instead, 4... Bb4 developes faster
and puts pressure on white. White cannot afford(?) to
mess up it's pawns also on the queen side.
I wonder if 1... h5 is the refutation of 1.g4, as white
has nothing to be excited about.
Regards,
Wlod
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Date: 19 Jul 2006 19:19:14
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod)
Subject: 1.g4?! -- general info
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Chessgames has 187 games
which start with 1.g4.
Of all opening moves 1.***, represented by
at least 100 games, move 1.g4 has the
best (for white) stats:
+61.7% =10.8% -27.5%
I imagine that ALL these 187 games were
played by very strong players. Nevertheless
the whole 115 games were lost by black!
This proves that meeting 1.g4 is far from
trivial. I am sure that other moves like 1.d4
are better but nevertheless it takes a fool
to put on an expert smirk and to put down
1.g4 off hand.
====
Wlod
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> > > g5 is the superior follow-up.
> > Can a second move by the same pawn be that good?
> >
> > I don't think so:
> >
> > 1.g4 h5
> > 2.g5 e5
>
> When you play a trick opening like 1.g4?!, you should expect to lose
> against good play. In the g5 line, White is only slightly behind after
> 10 moves. In the gxh5 and hxg4 lines, White is worse to much worse
I found a sample game: S.Sloan-J.Whitney, World Open 1999. After 1. g4
h5 2. g5 e5 3. d3 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. e4 d4 chances are equal.
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Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod) wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > g5 is the superior follow-up.
> Can a second move by the same pawn be that good?
>
> I don't think so:
>
> 1.g4 h5
> 2.g5 e5
When you play a trick opening like 1.g4?!, you should expect to lose
against good play. In the g5 line, White is only slightly behind after
10 moves. In the gxh5 and hxg4 lines, White is worse to much worse
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Date: 19 Jul 2006 07:02:36
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod)
Subject: Re: 1.g4?! h5!
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[email protected] wrote:
> One of the laziest approaches to playing chess as no one will ever pla
> this move unless White wants to give Black some attacks really early.
> Most of these are self apparent OTB so it's not really something to go
> over.
Oh, how wonderful it is to be a
VIRTUAL expert on everything.
Wlod
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Date: 19 Jul 2006 05:26:08
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod)
Subject: Re: 1.g4?! h5!
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[email protected] wrote:
> g5 is the superior follow-up.
>
> After g5, Black's knight is out-of-play for some time.
Can a second move by the same pawn be that good?
> Nf3 should be the next move, developing a piece
> and protecting the g5-pawn.
I don't think so:
1.g4 h5
2.g5 e5
Black will develope its king side,
while white has problems. Of course
3.Nf3? is oput of question due to
the simple 3... e4. And 3.h4 is not
attractive, too slow. 3.d3 is almost
forced. It looks like black already has
an advantage!
> After gxh5, Black's active rook gives
> him the superior game, as long as
> he doesn't capture too early.
Of course. No hurry. The two isolated
white pawns h are not going anywhere.
1.g4 h5
2.gxh? e5
and it feels like it was black, not white,
who had the advantage of the first move.
Of course white should not play 3.Bg2
on account of 3... Qg5! Thus again
3.d3 seems to be almost the only
reasonable move, and black has an advantage.
====
Wlod
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[email protected] wrote:
> > Well?
> One of the laziest approaches to playing chess as no one will ever pla
> this move unless White wants to give Black some attacks really early.
> Most of these are self apparent OTB so it's not really something to go
> over.
> 1. g4?! h5!
g5 is the superior follow-up.
After g5, Black's knight is out-of-play for some time. Nf3 should be
the next move, developing a piece and protecting the g5-pawn.
After gxh5, Black's active rook gives him the superior game, as long as
he doesn't capture too early. A couple developing moves first is
sufficient.
2. gxh5 Rxh5 3. e4 Nf6 4. d4, and White wins the center.
2. gxh5 Nf6 3. d4 Rxh5 4. e4, and White wins the center.
2. gxh5 Nf6 3. d4 d5 4. e3 Rxh5 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Nce2 Rh4 7. Bg2 Bf5 8.
Ng3 Bg6 9. a3 Qd7 10. f3 e6 and White can't even muster enough strength
for an e4-push.
2. gxh5 Nc6 3. d4 d5 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. e3 Bf5 6. a3 e6 7. Bg2 Bd6 and the
h-pawn is sitting there more or less ineffectual.
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Date: 19 Jul 2006 01:21:56
From:
Subject: Re: 1.g4?! h5!
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Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod) wrote:
> Well?
>
> ====
> Wlod
One of the laziest approaches to playing chess as no one will ever pla
this move unless White wants to give Black some attacks really early.
Most of these are self apparent OTB so it's not really something to go
over.
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